Comments on: Buy handmade, the new mass produced?

By: Flickr and the nebulous TOS. » Hraba Hospitality Consulting

Flickr and the nebulous TOS. » Hraba Hospitality Consulting — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:34:16 +0000

[...] Something people don’t seem to want to talk about, or at least isn’t brought up too often in regards to Flickr, is their famously nebulous Flickr TOS & Yahoo Terms of Service. I have spoken to some industry professionals about it, and am confident these are quiet concerns people keep to themselves and the kitchen table at 3am. A few have approached it, as well as there being spirited conversations, involving multiple staff, on Flickr itself. Just like Yelp’s notoriously vague behind the scene manipulations, people have cried foul to the way Flickr chooses to manage/delete accounts, with seemingly random application of it’s TOS. What’s more, it seems people aren’t confident in how to use it. Even the staff have varying viewpoints and opinions on the matter. At least one majour hotel flag and brand that uses Flickr relentlessly (and incredibly effectively) says he goes to bed at night thinking he will wake up and the accounts will be deleted. Other groups, like craft makers, are completely lost as to what “commercial purposes” means, and are getting frustrated with errant deletion of their groups. [...]

By: angiesangels

angiesangels — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 16:47:51 +0000

I honestly hadn’t really thought about this issue. I guess I have kind of ignored the business part of people’s blogs, mainly because I couldn’t afford the stuff anyway.
I agree at the ridiculous prices being charged for handmade things (I noticed on SouleMama’s etsy shop http://soulemama.bigcartel.com/ that she sold a small wall hanging quilt 15X15 inches for $350, she has very unique ideas, but $350..WOW!), and the mass producing…which I why I keep saying that I am searching my creative brain (or lack there of) for something “new”. Thanks for making me think today….
Have a great day!

Hi Angie …this post has been thought provoking and what I should also have said is that a lot of younger people today do not know how to or want to know how to sew so there is a demand for services aimed at those people. Also some people just do not have the time and are highly paid in their chosen fields so it makes sense for them to support artisans if they have a product they admire.

Now you are a different kettle of fish …young and smart and very talented in those areas. The thing is I guess supply and demand. If most people have those skills then there would be no demand …as there is a demand I think you would find that your costume making and dressmaking skills would be highly sought after. I shall be interviewing you in time under the banner of …artisan who could do really well and does not know it yet!!!! [and is honest to a fault and provided she has a supply of coffee will work all night to meet a deadline!!!!]

Checked out SouleMama…sounds expensive …then I looked at what the product actually was and it was part of a 100 year old quilt with 50′s style fashion dresses embroidered on it and had been professionally framed [archive safe] so that it would not degrade. So I feel that was well worth the money…….. as it was not mass produced…..it was unusual and beautifully presented as well as having a few perks with it…the Simplicity pattern from the fifties which inspired the embroidery.

By: Kate

Kate — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 06:36:15 +0000

Hand sewn bindings are fine with being washed. No different to any other kind of hemming – I tend to be a “small” stitcher, so I have faith in mine, same with my hand applique (though I have seen some do applique that would flap in the breeze if held up). I guess if it comes a little undone, you just re-stitch that part of it, but I’ve never had to yet. Don’t forget the binding is attached to the front of the quilt by machine, the hand stitching is just to sew it down on the back.

I do agree with you about Etsy. Obviously this is completely subjective. I buy from there if I find something that really appeals to me and is different enough to warrant it. I am, however, completely over those who glue a bit of ribbon and a scrapbook charm or button to a hair clip and expect to be paid a premium for it; or who thread three swarovski beads and a couple of findings onto an earring and call it “design”; or (and this close to my heart) those who sew charm squares together, whether bought in packs of self cut, do a bit of very basic quilting and ask the big dollars – to me that doesn’t rate as design, or art – it barely rates as craft. Sadly, you have to wade through all the poor stuff to find the jewels.

As for the whole flickr thing, since you’re my only contact (I think) you may have noticed I just haven’t managed to get the hang of it enough to get shirty about anything on it just yet. LOL

A lot of crafters hate the charms square brigade with a vengeance! I am going to play devil’s advocate here …can you believe it? I have noticed that the little tyed lap and baby quilts that have only two to four fabrics actually are very popular on etsy! They seem to appeal to a lot of younger people who like the simplicity and do not know how to sew. And this is the crux of this whole argument I feel…..that these sellers have found a niche market that has a supply and demand. Speaking as a crafter / artisan who needs to make money while doing the thing I love, this may be a way to do it. Find a product that is needed and do that as your bread and butter…..while constructing the more time consuming pieces that deserve to command the higher prices.

I have actually made two really good friends on flickr …one asked my family to stay at her house in rural Oregon and another has been pestering me….rightly so…to get a biopsy on a little cyst I have had on my eyelid for three years as it started bleeding last week…..had a black eye for a while. They are wonderful women and both gifted quilters and I would never have met them without participating in the groups. Also Jacquie above and Jackie who commented on the next post!

By: movinghands

movinghands — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 13:52:41 +0000

Thanks for visiting my photos on Flickr. I like your post. I was scratching my head last year when everyone was doing the “Buy Handmade” stuff around the holidays. Like the online pledges and blog buttons and stuff like that. So funny to me that many crafters will talk and/or write about simple living, local production, etc. etc., yet the message was all about BUY BUY BUY handmade. As in, “BUY handmade, and while you are at it, check out my listings on Etsy!” It got so tiresome. As for everyone having enough bags, hair clips and cushions, I think that it reached saturation point long ago. People need to rethink what it means to talk the talk of being green and responsible, while at the same time churning out…clutter?

I feel sane again thank you! You hit the nail on the head as I too am all about the simplicity and while I do thrift shop its more for essentials like fabric and shoes and clothes …with some jewellery and china thrown in. So I certainly cannot and would not pay $200 and upwards for a bag or a cushion etc. It is also a moral thing with me …I cannot see how in this day and age we can justify spending that kind of money on things to bolster our sense of vanity when there are so many natural disasters to give that money to. Not to mention disease research etc. I guess it is about priorities and though saving the planet is big on my agenda it is not as big as helping with cancer research and feeding children in Africa. You are on my feed reader!

By: Jacquie

Jacquie — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 03:45:42 +0000

Thanks for your very kind comment on my quilt on flickr. I feel almost like a different person when I read your comments about me! I do love color and seem to have an eye, at least that’s what people say. I just know what I love and go with that! Hope your weekend is great!

Thanks Jacquie…you are more than welcome and I am all about the encouragement…but also about honesty so you will get that in spades!!!

By: kara

kara — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 23:36:30 +0000

I have to say though, that creating things locally (ie not in third world countries) is very expensive as our manufacturing industry is pretty much dead. Good on all small businesses for standing firm on getting things locally produced, perhaps it will invigorate our industries and get Australia back on the map for the beautiful quality we once had. I am especially impressed with the fabulous Sjorcha at http://www.bubbamoe.com.au who started with nothing and now employs 7 people to create her baby slings and is rated 3rd in the world.

As to flickr groups, it’s the best way to put aside a copy of all your work (as long as you don’t mention its for sale) with a link from your site. That way, if anyone is interested in seeing the history of your work, you can say, “hey, check it out from when I started at flickr”. Its a fun time-line for anyone to see!

And hopefully a lot of these new small businesses become bigger businesses (that’s what I am hoping) so we can employ locally and help our community. My community in particular has high unemployment and I am now able to pay someone piecework for sewing here – one day I’d hope to take her on full-time!

There is a difference between hobbyists, crafters and business people… some of us are trying to earn a living and make our business viable and competitive.

Kara: Comment response on next post, it is too long and keeps getting deleted here! Kara is trying to kick start manufacturing again in Australia folks but am not sure if its just an uphill battle or an impossible dream in this day and age!

By: Kate

Kate — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 08:15:45 +0000

Thoughtful and well-said, as usual. I am far too shallow to try and think it through the way you have.

I don’t sell, I don’t want to sell and I have refused to sell. I have done all that with stage costumes and to me selling just adds stress to the whole process. Deadlines and sewing to other peoples’ tastes are something I don’t need to make me relax. I make because I want to, I enjoy it and to DE-stress.

Atlhough unlike you, I want people to throw my quilts in the washing machine, I want them to look used and well-loved. Though I think that is probably a product of the very different types of fabrics you and I use – you are far more adventurous than me. Heck, I even put mine in the dryer! LOL

Kate I wish I could say I thought it through….it was more a spur of the minute inspiration due to my frustration with some of the etsy people on flickr.

I am worried as most of my quilts are tied and as you say a lot of them are mixed fabrics which should be dry cleaned. When I eventually get enough money together to have them professionally quilted I won’t worry as much. How do you find the hand sewn binding goes after being machine washed? That is my other worry.

Read concern for worry people…my flickr friends are concerned I am too stressed by the business there but the people who know me realise its more being annoyed than stressed and its probably me getting my Irish up. You should know about that…with all your costumes!

So you used to sew those beauties for money? Stunning and can see that they would be a challenge and deadlines and things. I only sell stuff that I have already made….that is the choice I offer!!!

By: cjwriter

cjwriter — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:55:17 +0000

Wow, sounds like Flickr are going to have an insurrection on their hands if they’re not careful. It makes sense; you can’t have people rorting the system and reflecting on the people who are doing the right thing… but you’d think Flickr could have implemented their new policy better – like having all of the details worked out before they started deleting groups! I’d just delete all photos with links from now on; that might be the only way to stop it.

Very interesting about handmade being the new mass-produced; it does seem like that, doesn’t it? I guess that’s part of it being so fashionable now, that it’ll get abused. You can extend it to most small businesses; I mean, I love the environmental tees and many of them started online, but now they’re everywhere and their message doesn’t mean anything. And because they’re “eco-friendly”, they’re double the price!

In the end it’s marketing; people see a way to make money and the idea changes. I don’t know if it’s selling out exactly but at the very least they should play by the rules. Seems strange though that Flickr won’t even allow blogs with a link to a business; even WordPress allows that. I don’t see why what you post on your blog has anything to do with Flickr at all.

I delete all photos with links and all with tags and any I think are trying to sell by having a long product description under them ..you know the its a fabulous colour and would look so great on you its dimensions are…on and on and on and on

Lucky you with the tees….by the time you finally got around to buying one Target had jumped on the bandwagon!! And thought CJWriter would like the title of the post…kind of catchy don’t you think and hits the nail on the head as well.

Flickr do allow links to businesses on blogs…they prefer it off the photo page though so it is not as if you are selling a particular product from a photo. Please come again!!!

By: arlee

arlee — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 13:30:00 +0000

You hit the nail on the head, Sister!! Stacks of commercial felt, bags of frogged out sweater yarn and granny’s tablecloth do not necessarily make good craft. I’m on Etsy and i just received an “update” that there is now over a million listings and i need to “re-classify” my tagging—-i’m probably not going to add much more as it’s now as easy to get lost amongst the “handmade” as the commercial—it seems a lot are doing “craft” now more for the money than the satisfaction.

Wow Arlee you are one of the most talented people we have on our groups and it pisses me off no end that it is hard for you to be found on etsy because there is so much crap there and because of the little matter that you do the right thing on flickr. Luckily most people who see your photos know to go to your photostream for your blog and contact details.

Look at Jacquie above…she is so humble about what she does and is a self doubter…which is great in a crafter/artisan…makes for a better finished quilt or artwork in your case. She also would not need to advertise should she feel like starting sewing for money as she has built up a following already through her blog. I think that is a natural progression…through blogs we see if we can meet like minded individuals and also feel out the market place. We are not forcing ourselves on anyone…if people want to find us they can.

By: Jacquie

Jacquie — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 13:18:18 +0000

Of course you are in time for the giveaway and thanks for asking about my foot. It’s fine and I’m trying harder to use my pincushion! Interesting post too. I see flickr accounts every day with links to etsy or other commercial sites. I have thought about selling what I make, but everytime someone asks I think, naw, I do it because I love to make things. I stress too much even in a swap because I want it to be perfect. I don’t do this to stress out. I was even nervous doing a giveaway especially since it was an experiment to help me learn new things. I hope to find a balance in there somewhere.

That was quick Jacquie I was still reading some of the comments on your post!! I know what you mean…I do fret over every stitch and get upset if people throw the quilts into the washing machine …there is so much of ourselves in them. Do not totally rule it out though as I do feel that you have an original eye for colour and your work is amazing considering the amount of time you have been quilting. Not to forget your blogging…amazing and what a following! Maybe not so amazing as you do share yourself so much…you are humble and aren’t above asking for advice…makes a winning combination. So glad we met through flickr Jacquie!!!

I am not against etsy..shall eventually open a shop myself…just against the etsy mentality I guess!